You MUST Run a Marathon Before Doing an Ironman!

[jared]

Have you heard that you have to run a marathon before competing in an Ironman? I've heard it and everyone told me that I was crazy doing an Ironman before running a marathon. Joel Friel, author of the Training Bible and all around Triathlon Coach God, addresses this in his recent blog post Ironman: Run a Marathon? #2

By all means, if you want to run a marathon do it. The biggest risk is that you will become injured with a lot of running and lose some training time before Wildflower. There is also the issue of how serious you get about your time for the marathon. I'd recommend keeping your finish time low key and continuing to bike and swim pretty much as you normally would for a half Ironman. Just increase your longest weekly run and aim only for finishing the marathon.

I believe it all comes down to the psychological factor. In other words, if you're really nervous for the marathon and you don't think you can do it in the Ironman, it might be worth doing a marathon. Otherwise, it's not needed. I also liked the following about a couple of pro Ironman competitors:

In the last few years two pros broke 3 hours in their Ironman run splits running less than 20 miles per week. One did a single long run of 12 miles, yet he still broke 3 hours and won an Ironman. It worked, but I wouldn't recommend this either.

I also asked him about run volume training for a low 12s Ironman and he said that at peak it should be 4-5 hours per week. You should definitely check out the blog post and Joe's blog. He's great about answering questions in the comments section.

And... just in case you were wondering, I didn't run a marathon before my Ironman and I still finished. 4:45 in the marathon definitely wasn't my goal but it worked out. My IMMOO 2010's goal for the marathon is low 4 hours.


What do you think?

[alexg]

I've never run a "marathon" but I think people have to really seperate marathon from Ironman. It's not a marathon, it's a run leg. I wouldnt approach it the same nor would I train for them the same. I don't think crazy run weeks are worth it for triathletes. The most I have ever ran in a week is 55 miles. That was way early season just for fun and I was hurting after running that much and trying to swim and bike too. Personally I don't think you need to run more than 5-6 hours a week to do Ironman. And even that is not every week. I also disagree with running more than 2.5 hours at a time no matter where you think your run split is going to be. It's just too hard on the body and probably not much benefit, especially if your just going to run walk run walk. It's not going to make you faster or stronger. During my first IM build I ran 1 run of 2:32 and 1 run of 2:26. That was my longest runs. Most of my long runs were 1:30 to 2 hours. This time around going into IMFL, I have only done 2 run's of up to 2 hours. I would say a peak run week would be at most 6 hours and I would do that 5 weeks out from the race. Quality in your runs is more important than distance or time too. You should have 1 run a week of just easy and the rest should have some purpose. Like a tempo run of HR3-4, interval run, long endurance HR2-3(not slacking but really trying to build something), and a brick run at race pace effort. If you can't do the whole long endurance run at HR2-3 for a given time, then back down the time not the effort and slowly build the time back up. And don't run 35 minutes 3 times a week and then expect to do a 2.5 hr run of any quality. That doesnt work either.

Another thing to keep in mind is that non triathlete runners do those "long runs" to build their aerobic base more than anything. As triathletes we don't need to do that. We swim for 90 minutes and bike for 6 hours. We have a base. There is no reason to hurt your body more to build a base you already have.

[jared]

I agree that a run over 2.5 hours in training for an Ironman is not good. I used a training plan from Mike Ricci (Level III USAT Coach that subscribes to Joel Friel's ideas) and he recommended nothing over 2.5 hours at once. There were training days with a total of 3 hours running but it was split between a 2:15 run in the morning with an easy 45 minute run at night.

As he talks about in that article, training for a marathon and racing a marathon is drastically different than training for (as you put it so well) a run leg in an Ironman. Different heart rate zones and different effort.

[Ashley]

I know there are lots of people out there with 2 hr and 2.5 hour half marathon times ... What would you suggest to slower runners who might only get in 15 or so miles in 2.5 hours?

[jared]

That's a good point on slower runners. I don't know if just running slower, however, will change the damage to your body of going much more than 2.5 hours. I know there are wildly different opinions out there but there seems to be a trend towards not doing the very long runs in training.

I know Hanson's training for a marathon doesn't include a 20 mile run. I think they have a 10 mile run on Saturday and a 10 on Sunday. There reasoning is the same that running a 20 mile run breaks your muscles down to much and you need too much recovery after to do during your peak training. In other words, you do the long run but then all of your training days the next week suffer because you're recovering. Mike Ricci (Level III coach) also suggests a limit, which all of his trainings work off of hours, not miles.

I guess it really comes down to each person. Many people, like Damon, do the 20 mile runs and are able to recover quickly. I would say if someone is in less shape than that and is running 15 miles in 2.5 hours, it would be good to break up like Mike Ricci calls for. Maybe the 2:15 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes easy in the evening.

Damon? Alex? Anyone else?

[Damon]

Ok, I'll throw in a couple thoughts. As for slower runners, I don't think that it's really that much different. You're still putting in a lot of time on your legs and you are likely striking the ground just as often, meaning your knees are taking a big impact even if you are going 2 to 2.5 hours on a 1/2 marathon.

Alex made a great point. You have to rely on your aerobic base to finish the Ironman marathon. It's a totally different ball game than a stand-alone marathon. Believe it or not, it hurts less. Weird I know... and I have a hard time explaining why. The point is that your heart is the more important muscle in this instance, not your legs... of course, you can't finish that run segment if your legs are fried! In my experience, running 2 to 2.5 hours is plenty of time for one run training. I can't see the benefit of going much longer, in fact... other than getting injured (which is not a benefit of course). My feeling is that you MUST do a run after you do a long ride... and try to do that each time. So after a 5 hour bike ride, shoot for a 45 min to 1 hr transition run. Try to keep your pacing consistent with your Ironman pace goal. This should allow you to feel the sadness that always seems to hit me at mile 3 or earlier. Doing the transition run will help you figure out how to get around this... or run through it.

That said, I DO think it helps quite a bit to run a marathon by itself before doing Ironman. Now, take this with a grain of salt because my first 2 marathons were in Ironman races. But I can tell you that after running the Freep (and even the Myrtle Beach) marathon I had a much better idea of what pace I was capable of running on fatigued legs. My goal for next year will be running an early season marathon (hopefully Austin, TX in Feb) and running it purely for the sake of pacing and negative splitting the second half. I really think "using" a marathon in this way can give you a big confidence boost going into Ironman. It definitely helps to know what's coming.

To sum up: you do NOT need to run a marathon before an Ironman by any means. You will still finish that run portion. If you DO, make sure it's several months before your big race. Then, it may be beneficial but only from a mental perspective.

Damon