Cycling Law Reform - Is it needed?

[jared]

There's a debate out there whether bikes should be considered the same as cars on the road. I ride a lot on the roads and with traffic having just finished an ironman, I spent quite a few hours on roads riding through multiple cities in Metro-Detroit. I also live in downtown Detroit so I spend a lot of time cycling in fairly heavy traffic downtown.

I know we often yell to irate drivers that "we're the same as cars, we get to ride on the roads." I don't think anyone's arguing that fact but are we really the same as cars? I'm of the opinion that it should be different. Riding a bike poses differences in risks and in stopping and starting. If I'm on a bike coming up to a stop light, what's a safer scenario:

1. I stop at the stop light with traffic. When the light turns green, I fumble with cliping in my pedals and move ahead slowly often impeding traffic turning right or from the other way turning left. I also have multiple cars flying by me.

2. I approach a red light moving slowly at a couple of miles an hour. I look both ways to see that there are no cars in either direction, I go through the light and don't impede traffic. When cars come by me on the left, I'm already at speed.

I'm sure you can see which one I prefer. It's safer for cars and for bikes. If a bike were to impede traffic in the other direction or pull out in front of cross traffic, however, they should be given a ticket and a fine. I'm not talking about reckless running of red lights, I'm talking about common sense running of lights.

Idaho has a stop as yield law that allows a rider to "After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping." It's intended to increase the flow of bicycles through cities so they can be a more viable option for commuting. There are similar laws proposed in Oregon and other states. Could it come to Michigan, the motor city?

There's a good discussion on "Should Bikes be Treated Like Cars?" and I found an excellent website on [urlhttp://www.m-bike.org/]promoting safe and convenient bicycling in Metro Detroit[/url] called m-bike.org. They're pushing for bike lanes, more funding for bike lanes and paths, and more city plans for promoting safe cycling.

What do you think about law reform in Michigan or just general law reform? Are bikes the same as cars? Should the laws be the same?

[Damon]

It would be extremely nice if non-cyclists were more supportive (read- less anti-cyclist) and actually didn't mind having us on the same roads. I've been cycling in Wisconsin tons of times and I've been heckled once or twice max. Here, I am surprised if I go out on a ride without getting yelled at, flipped off, or get something thrown at me. Michigan is a terrible state for cycling in that respect. I really hope it gets better! The construction of dedicated bike lanes would be a great start. And getting more people to commute via bike would really go a long way towards educating the general public. People care more when it concerns them directly. Perhaps we need gas prices to go back up?

Damon

[Asher]

Michigan drivers absolutely hate cyclists. So for the time being I'm not in favor of running red lights. In more biker friendly states like Wisconsin or Pennsylvania (and apparently Idaho) this is a great idea. But until Michigan drivers stop being so ignorant I think it's safer to keep the current laws. Note that this won't really stop me from riding through stop signs and lights so maybe I'm being a touch hypocritical. I think having the bike lanes and such is a great initiative though. Then more people will ride, and more drivers will see more bikers (that aren't in their way!) and then it's more acceptable to have the laws changed. If/when I move out of Michigan, the biker-friendliness of my new location will be a factor in whether or not I move there.

[jared]

I hear both of you. Michigan (or at least Southeast Michigan) isn't the most bike friendly place. There are definitely better places than others but for the most part Michigan drivers think of cyclists as young kids going 5 m.p.h. that need to be on the sidewalk.

I agree in maybe holding off a little bit, until we get informed drivers, for the "stop as yield" law. I, as well, will continue to run red lights when it makes sense. You can't catch me cops, I can go off road! Oh wait, not with my road bike...

One suggestion I've seen in addition to bike lanes are "Share the road" signs that tell cars to share the road with cyclists. I think this simple activity would reduce anti-cyclist sentiment. I think the biggest reason we get heckled, honked at, yelled at, and road raged against is that people are ignorant. Putting it nicely that would be "uninformed" but I'm not that nice.

Having "share the road" signs and maybe some P.S.A.'s on sharing the road with cyclists??? I think would help. What do you think? Do we go on an informational campaign?

[alexg]

You guys did hear this didnt you? Talk about no respect. And yes the Alex who wrote the comment was me.
http://dd.wcsx.com/?p=4284

If your looking for a safe place to ride for hours on end you can always come north to my area. I live about 5 miles away from Big Fish and you can pretty much ride all day with little to no traffic on the roads up here. If you ride on M15 the should is about 8 feet wide and has a rumble strip between you and the lane the cars are driving in.

[Damon]

Didn't hear it Alex. What were they saying? I agree that over by you the roads are really nice and I wouldn't mind doing some riding in the area. Good luck in 12 days!!

Damon

[jared]

Just for anyone that didn't hear that segment, Deminski and Doyle refer to cyclists wearing “goddamn helmets” and they further expressed that they want to go “grand theft auto” on bicyclists. It was basically an anti-cyclist show. They said we shouldn't be on the road because bikes don't have licenses and don't pay taxes. I believe the owners do though... Anyway, it looks like they've removed all of the comments put on their segment.

Here's another cool quote from them, "But honest to God, how many people have seen a bicyclist and you would just love to lob something at their heads because, no seriously, I'm not condoning it, I'm not saying we do it, I'm saying hasn't the thought gone through your head, because seriously how selfishly do some of these people ride their bikes."

[Damon]

Ok, I get pissed when cyclists act like the world revolves around them. That's what gives us a bad name. But seriously?! What is wrong with people? And we do pay taxes, just like everyone else. But sometimes we chose not to drive a car on the road and ride a bike instead. Where's the problem? Should we have pay twice to use the same road? Ridiculous!

Damon

[jared]

So here are a few more arguments:

1. Bikes should have more freedom on the roads because a bike vs. car collision leaves the car winning pretty much all of the time so running a red light is only going to harm us. We can also be more evasive than a car in avoiding other cars because of our light weight.

2. What about red lights that are activated by cars (i.e. a car stops at the stop light and the weight of the car signals the light to turn green). A bike doesn't have the weight to change the light. I've heard that there was a proposal for one at 12 mile and Connecticut in Royal Oak because there isn't much traffic on Connecticut. What do we do there? Break the law? I obviously would not be one to run a red light if I'm not supposed to.

[alexg]

Thanks Damon!!! If you click on that link you should a play button and some options on how to play it.